another faulty 12V ?

Faults and Technical chat for the Skoda Enyaq
CrowSysE243
Posts: 230
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2023 7:22 pm

Post by CrowSysE243 »

riki1 wrote: Tue Dec 24, 2024 7:47 am But he drove most of those 35 miles with the main battery below 20% charge, so by then his 12V battery was probably no longer charging and therefore discharged.
I have had a look back at some data I recorded last September when the car was below 20% indicated HV SoC.
The car was parked for 45 hours with an initial18,8 indicated HV SoC and 93% 12V SoC. The recording taken at this time showed that the 12V battery was being charged at the time the car was switched off. At the end of the 45 hours the display HV SoC had reduced to 17.1% and the 12V SoC had reduced to 79%. Based on other measurements I have taken more recently I would have expected a larger reduction in the 12V SoC, however the data also shows that there was an increase in the 12V battery total charging.
The car was then driven 8 miles in short journeys spread over an hour and a half with Car Scanner recording the whole time. At the end of this the HV indicated SoC had reduced to 14.44% but the 12V battery SoC had increased to 94%. The recording shows that the 12V battery was being charged while the car was being driven.

I have not yet located data at lower HV SoC, however the recordings show that the 12V battery in my car is being charged from the HV battery with SoC down to below 14.5% and probably lower, bothe while driving and when parked and locked. The only change in characteristics that I have found so far when the HV SoC is low is a reduction in the HV discharge current limit. At high SoC I see a limit of 800 amperes. The behaviour does depend on factors other then SoC. I have seen discharge limit reduction starting above 30% SoC and below 20%. In this case the limits recorded were:

SoC % Discharge Limit/ampere
18.88 793
17.10 766
14.44 717
iV80 Loft, 19"Regulus, Energy Blue, Maxx Pack, Travel Pack, Heat pump. SW 3.5. Collected 3/7/23 Untethered PodPoint + Intelligent Octopus. Third Rock mode 2 charger with Tough Leads modular extension lead and adapters.

Skku
Posts: 94
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2023 8:01 pm

Post by Skku »

CrowSysE243 wrote: Tue Dec 24, 2024 8:43 pm
riki1 wrote: Tue Dec 24, 2024 7:47 am But he drove most of those 35 miles with the main battery below 20% charge, so by then his 12V battery was probably no longer charging and therefore discharged.
I have had a look back at some data I recorded last September when the car was below 20% indicated HV SoC.
The car was parked for 45 hours with an initial18,8 indicated HV SoC and 93% 12V SoC. The recording taken at this time showed that the 12V battery was being charged at the time the car was switched off. At the end of the 45 hours the display HV SoC had reduced to 17.1% and the 12V SoC had reduced to 79%. Based on other measurements I have taken more recently I would have expected a larger reduction in the 12V SoC, however the data also shows that there was an increase in the 12V battery total charging.
The car was then driven 8 miles in short journeys spread over an hour and a half with Car Scanner recording the whole time. At the end of this the HV indicated SoC had reduced to 14.44% but the 12V battery SoC had increased to 94%. The recording shows that the 12V battery was being charged while the car was being driven.

I have not yet located data at lower HV SoC, however the recordings show that the 12V battery in my car is being charged from the HV battery with SoC down to below 14.5% and probably lower, bothe while driving and when parked and locked. The only change in characteristics that I have found so far when the HV SoC is low is a reduction in the HV discharge current limit. At high SoC I see a limit of 800 amperes. The behaviour does depend on factors other then SoC. I have seen discharge limit reduction starting above 30% SoC and below 20%. In this case the limits recorded were:

SoC % Discharge Limit/ampere
18.88 793
17.10 766
14.44 717
Well....no...Enyaq doesn't charge the 12v battery when turned off and locked. When you turn of and locks the car it continues to charge the 12v battery for 2-3 minutes.....but not longer then that...
CrowSysE243
Posts: 230
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2023 7:22 pm

Post by CrowSysE243 »

Well....no...Enyaq doesn't charge the 12v battery when turned off and locked. When you turn of and locks the car it continues to charge the 12v battery for 2-3 minutes.....but not longer then that...
[/quote]

That may have been the case in the past, however my car (iV80 with SW version 3.5 plus several module updates) has definitely been charging the 12V battery when off and locked over the last few months. I do agree that when it has been driven the inverter continues to provide power to the 12V circuits for several minutes after the car is switched off and locked, but I have observed that the voltage increases to above 14V and the battery is charged if the SoC drops too far. I have recorded the inverter and battery voltage and current using Car scanner and also observed the voltage with a voltmeter and seen the same behaviour. With Car Scanner the 12V battery discharge is increased so it takes less time for the battery charging to be initiated, but it does allow more information to be recorded, including the BMS view of the 12V battery SoC.

The following screenshot shows a recording started several hours after the car had been driven. The initial battery discharge current is high for a period after locking the car and then reduces to the steady state value over about 5 minutes. Measurements immediately after driving show that the inverter continues to provide power for this period. The steady state discharge continues until the 12V SoC reduces to 50%. At this point the inverter switches on and the 12V battery is charged, initially at about 20 ampere but with the charging current reducing, until the SoC reaches 90%.

12V charging while locked and stopped.png

Using external metering, rather than an OBD2 adapter and Car Scanner, the discharging seems to be much slower (about 5% per 12 hours from memory) but the voltage profile is very similar apart from the reduced rate of decrease. Taking daily snapshots with Car Scanner, rather than continuous recording, while the car is not being driven for several days, shows reducing 12 V battery state of charge and fixed 12V battery total charging for a period, with occasional measurements showing an increased 12V SoC together with an increased total charging.

I do not have data to allow me to determine how long the car has been charging the 12V battery while the car is off, and I do not know what software variants support this, however the battery definitely does get charged at times while the car is off, locked and disconnected from a car charger, as well as while the car is charging, rather than only while the car is on and being driven.
iV80 Loft, 19"Regulus, Energy Blue, Maxx Pack, Travel Pack, Heat pump. SW 3.5. Collected 3/7/23 Untethered PodPoint + Intelligent Octopus. Third Rock mode 2 charger with Tough Leads modular extension lead and adapters.
MacDragon
Posts: 38
Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2024 2:23 pm

Post by MacDragon »

I think there was note in the 7.6 my skoda app update about this, so it's possibly since then?
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riki1
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Post by riki1 »

CrowSysE243 wrote: Tue Dec 24, 2024 8:43 pm I have had a look back at some data I recorded last September when the car was below 20% indicated HV SoC.......
Thank you again for your detailed investigation of the situation.
SKODA Enyaq RS Coupe, dark grey metallic ( riki1.eu )
Skku
Posts: 94
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2023 8:01 pm

Post by Skku »

CrowSysE243 wrote: Tue Dec 24, 2024 11:23 pm Well....no...Enyaq doesn't charge the 12v battery when turned off and locked. When you turn of and locks the car it continues to charge the 12v battery for 2-3 minutes.....but not longer then that...
That may have been the case in the past, however my car (iV80 with SW version 3.5 plus several module updates) has definitely been charging the 12V battery when off and locked over the last few months. I do agree that when it has been driven the inverter continues to provide power to the 12V circuits for several minutes after the car is switched off and locked, but I have observed that the voltage increases to above 14V and the battery is charged if the SoC drops too far. I have recorded the inverter and battery voltage and current using Car scanner and also observed the voltage with a voltmeter and seen the same behaviour. With Car Scanner the 12V battery discharge is increased so it takes less time for the battery charging to be initiated, but it does allow more information to be recorded, including the BMS view of the 12V battery SoC.

The following screenshot shows a recording started several hours after the car had been driven. The initial battery discharge current is high for a period after locking the car and then reduces to the steady state value over about 5 minutes. Measurements immediately after driving show that the inverter continues to provide power for this period. The steady state discharge continues until the 12V SoC reduces to 50%. At this point the inverter switches on and the 12V battery is charged, initially at about 20 ampere but with the charging current reducing, until the SoC reaches 90%.

12V charging while locked and stopped.png

Using external metering, rather than an OBD2 adapter and Car Scanner, the discharging seems to be much slower (about 5% per 12 hours from memory) but the voltage profile is very similar apart from the reduced rate of decrease. Taking daily snapshots with Car Scanner, rather than continuous recording, while the car is not being driven for several days, shows reducing 12 V battery state of charge and fixed 12V battery total charging for a period, with occasional measurements showing an increased 12V SoC together with an increased total charging.

I do not have data to allow me to determine how long the car has been charging the 12V battery while the car is off, and I do not know what software variants support this, however the battery definitely does get charged at times while the car is off, locked and disconnected from a car charger, as well as while the car is charging, rather than only while the car is on and being driven.
[/quote]

I'm still unsure about this...I've had a 80x before and now 85x ... Nether have charged the 12v battery when turned off. It's kind of unlikely that the 80 (even if updated to 3.7) would have this funktion when the 85x with 4.1 doesn't....

Either way....it's a funktion that must be implemented asap!
SomersetPip
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun May 19, 2024 2:46 pm

Post by SomersetPip »

I've read this post and it's very interesting BUT all the abbreviation, graphs,% , 12volt charging , etc etc..........gets away from the fact. THE ENYAQ 12 VOLT SYSTEM IS CRAP.
On the Christmas day the car was at 65% but all day all I get was the battery protection limit message and that been the case for 9 months. My Skoda dealership looks at me like I have 2 heads when I go in and explain, of course they have never seen this before even though I bring up this site and show them. Breaking point was, locked out on Exmoor, freezing rain, howling gale and I have to dismantle the door handle to get in. We are on one of these interest free deals but I just what shot of the car.
Skoda telling me I can only interrogate 3 times before lock out. Pity their software developers are past their sell by date. Ok rant over...... delete if you want but God I feel better 😂
Ohhhh forgot to say....the app offered me a great deal on dog food a few days ago !!!!!!!
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riki1
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Post by riki1 »

Maybe the new version has problems, but I've had the Enyaq for 15 months (last pieces of the old version) and apart from the slightly crookedly mounted passenger compartment, I have absolutely no problems and the 12V system works without any problems.

Image
SKODA Enyaq RS Coupe, dark grey metallic ( riki1.eu )
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Post by Deleted User 3308 »

SomersetPip wrote: Fri Dec 27, 2024 12:06 pm I've read this post and it's very interesting BUT all the abbreviation, graphs,% , 12volt charging , etc etc..........gets away from the fact. THE ENYAQ 12 VOLT SYSTEM IS CRAP.
On the Christmas day the car was at 65% but all day all I get was the battery protection limit message and that been the case for 9 months. My Skoda dealership looks at me like I have 2 heads when I go in and explain, of course they have never seen this before even though I bring up this site and show them. Breaking point was, locked out on Exmoor, freezing rain, howling gale and I have to dismantle the door handle to get in. We are on one of these interest free deals but I just what shot of the car.
Skoda telling me I can only interrogate 3 times before lock out. Pity their software developers are past their sell by date. Ok rant over...... delete if you want but God I feel better 😂
Ohhhh forgot to say....the app offered me a great deal on dog food a few days ago !!!!!!!
You know what….. I actually agree… completely. It’s completely unacceptable for such an expensive car.

My tip is to find the way to get it to cost Škoda the most - then they have more interest in getting it sorted and improved.

I strongly suggest phoning Škoda assist - getting a VWG van out (not AA). They cover all of the VWG cars and are much more capable with better service and 100% free.

Tell them you get locked out, tell them about warning messages and concerns in the car - don’t just mention the app (if at all) - tell them it’s getting steadily worse them to don’t believe it’s safe to drive etc. this is expensive for Škoda.

The guy I had come out was superb.
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riki1
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Post by riki1 »

CrowSysE243 wrote: Tue Dec 24, 2024 8:43 pm ......
Hello CrowSysE243. Last night I charged my car (soft ver 3.7) in the garage to 80%. So I assumed that the 12V battery would also charge. When I got to the car in the afternoon, the keyless entry didn't work (I had to press the button on the key), so I was curious about the condition of the 12V battery. I connected the OBD2 adapter and the 12V battery had only 54% SoC. Interesting...
SKODA Enyaq RS Coupe, dark grey metallic ( riki1.eu )
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